Post by Seran on Jul 12, 2015 6:42:48 GMT
(Yes this is a repost, but the original was posted on the last site right before the site move announcement. We've had mod changes, and site changes, so I repost is needed.)
Alright boys and girl, it’s time to sit down with BM-Sama and have a talk.
“BUT BM!” Cry the members, “Mod souls are AL and are generally in a good place of balance. What do you have to talk about?”
Right you are scum. But if you’ve been around a long time you’ll know that there is one thing BM cares about as much as mod souls.
“Cocaine?”
………...Yes Item Creation you guessed right.
But all joking aside, lately I’ve been hearing talk in Cbox and seeing stuff in the registration boards that has got me thinking about item creation again. So I did some research and have written up a nice wall of text for you all to read and respond to.
Basically I’ll be covering the benefits of creation and items, the point of creation from a site-wide standpoint, and finally what I believe is the current issue with creation. Some of this is my opinion, so feel free to comment. Oh and if there is something that I covered that is wrong please let me know. So lets begin.
The Benefits of Creation
So the benefit of creation as you well know is the ability to make items. But under our system what is the benefit of items? Well there are four:
Item Techniques: Items can have their own abilities, and the benefit of this is an additional cooldown. So basically if you use a tier VII defensive ability and your item has a tier VII defensive ability you can use it immediately afterwards and it will have its own cooldown separate from the normal tech cooldown.
Body Modifications: The value of these is somewhat up for debate. But generally giving your body more properties is a plus. Basically a much weaker version of a mods soul’s vessel powers for any race.
Armor: As of this present moment armor has debateable useage, however the mods have told me several times that a new system for items covering stuff like armor is on the way so armor may be a bigger deal sooner. But you get the idea, armor adds an additional layer of defense.
Ammunition: This is an area that has not really been fleshed out by any guide or rules. Basically its items that have one use, do not incur a cooldown, but you have a limited number of them. Like bullets or grenades.
These are all quite powerful as you can see, and it fact, I would say TOO POWERFUL, but not on their own which is a point I’ll get to.
What Item Creation Should Be
Let me start by saying that in the canon item creation is rare. Of the massive number of canon characters we have seen only a couple have been shown to have item creation. While most of the characters have skills in the other masteries as we list them on the site (excluding healing), there are only 5 or so characters that would be be more than average.
Creation is an excellent plot stimulator in that regard. From a site perspective you would certainly have people who wish to increase their power, but should not themselves want to take up creation because of the cost to character it should have (we’ll get to that). Seeking out such creation based characters makes wonderful places for plots to go, involving negotiating for the item, obtaining materials, perhaps doing something for the creation user in order to get the item, etc. Just look at my Evolving items plot, now on its third page and we haven’t even gotten to constructing the items yet.
But sadly this is not how item creation works on the site at the current moment. Which leads me too:
What Is Wrong With Item Creation
Anyone Can Reach Mastered Item Creation
Now back before I was gone due to…… lets just call it “Mod Requested Hiatus” ranking up and specializing in item creation took a serious toll on your character. Without going into complete details, at max rank to have specialized creation you had to cap two other masteries and could also not specialize in a normal mastery. In fact you couldn’t even get higher than average without capping a mastery. But alas this is no more, and basically now there is no negative to mastering creation. Yes you have to cap healing at average but at the current moment healing is completely shit and no one really uses it. This basically means that you have have all by the very highest level of items and still have everything else mastered or specialize in normal mastery. Now as I mentioned earlier this doesn’t really match with the canon, where you have most normal canons being capable of using kido, swordsmanship, stepping etc… but almost no one has even above average creation. The way it works on the site completely throws any item based plots out the window, since if you can just make all but the absolute pinnacle of items without having to even thread why bother with making threads specifically designed around getting an item.
No Mod Enforcement of Materials
Now I won’t lie, I’ve been guilty of this recently as well. In the guide it states that making items does in fact require materials, but taking recent grading, this is not being enforced at all. Hell I myself have recently have items approved that were tier VII with no materials listed, and even when I have materials listed, they arent ones that have been approved, or have set properties, I basically just come up with a cool name and description and its likely considered no more than fluff by the mods. Having to actually acquire materials to make the higher strength items is in my opinion essential to keep people from just flooding with tier VII items that they essentially just conjured out of thin air.
Plot Point Trading For Items
Now this I’m not even sure is legal, but its been mentioned in Cbox several times now and I think has actually been done. Trading of plot point again makes items to easily obtain. Again back before my Hiatus, you couldn’t trade plot point to an item creator or pay for an item with your own plot points. The creation user not only had to pay for it themselves or make it IC but also had to write it up and get it approved themselves which really made what items there were kinda rare, and important, as it basically meant you had done something for the maker IC that was worth spending their own plot points and time on.
So basically what I’m saying is items are really too strong and lacking in information for how easy they are to obtain. Basically anyone who understands how strong items are right now can kit thier character out with mastered creation and spit out tier VI armor, body mods, weapons, and ammunition based items while still specializing in another mastery.
What we really need is the following: The item guide currently covers item techniques decently well, however it does not cover body modifications, ammunition, or armor well at all (though some of this may change with the forth coming item info). Materials also need a more in depth system, and need to be better enforced so people actually need have them in order to make the more powerful weapons. At least in the case of creation, you should not be able to give a creation user points to pay for a weapon, as this is basically just paying points for access to perks related to a mastery you do not have, all you have to do is know a creation user IC and BAM, you can buy whatever items you want with your own plot points.
And then a choice needs to be made: Either creation needs to be harder to get (basically a return to having to cap a mastery to get higher than average and another to specialize and no specializing in other masteries, or some other thing that mods decide on the makes it similarly difficult to take). Or items themselves need a nerf because basically everyone can (and should because there is no downside) have mastered creation and the numerous perks that come along with it.
Seran © All rights reserved, 2015-2016.
Alright boys and girl, it’s time to sit down with BM-Sama and have a talk.
“BUT BM!” Cry the members, “Mod souls are AL and are generally in a good place of balance. What do you have to talk about?”
Right you are scum. But if you’ve been around a long time you’ll know that there is one thing BM cares about as much as mod souls.
“Cocaine?”
………...Yes Item Creation you guessed right.
But all joking aside, lately I’ve been hearing talk in Cbox and seeing stuff in the registration boards that has got me thinking about item creation again. So I did some research and have written up a nice wall of text for you all to read and respond to.
Basically I’ll be covering the benefits of creation and items, the point of creation from a site-wide standpoint, and finally what I believe is the current issue with creation. Some of this is my opinion, so feel free to comment. Oh and if there is something that I covered that is wrong please let me know. So lets begin.
The Benefits of Creation
So the benefit of creation as you well know is the ability to make items. But under our system what is the benefit of items? Well there are four:
Item Techniques: Items can have their own abilities, and the benefit of this is an additional cooldown. So basically if you use a tier VII defensive ability and your item has a tier VII defensive ability you can use it immediately afterwards and it will have its own cooldown separate from the normal tech cooldown.
Body Modifications: The value of these is somewhat up for debate. But generally giving your body more properties is a plus. Basically a much weaker version of a mods soul’s vessel powers for any race.
Armor: As of this present moment armor has debateable useage, however the mods have told me several times that a new system for items covering stuff like armor is on the way so armor may be a bigger deal sooner. But you get the idea, armor adds an additional layer of defense.
Ammunition: This is an area that has not really been fleshed out by any guide or rules. Basically its items that have one use, do not incur a cooldown, but you have a limited number of them. Like bullets or grenades.
These are all quite powerful as you can see, and it fact, I would say TOO POWERFUL, but not on their own which is a point I’ll get to.
What Item Creation Should Be
Let me start by saying that in the canon item creation is rare. Of the massive number of canon characters we have seen only a couple have been shown to have item creation. While most of the characters have skills in the other masteries as we list them on the site (excluding healing), there are only 5 or so characters that would be be more than average.
Creation is an excellent plot stimulator in that regard. From a site perspective you would certainly have people who wish to increase their power, but should not themselves want to take up creation because of the cost to character it should have (we’ll get to that). Seeking out such creation based characters makes wonderful places for plots to go, involving negotiating for the item, obtaining materials, perhaps doing something for the creation user in order to get the item, etc. Just look at my Evolving items plot, now on its third page and we haven’t even gotten to constructing the items yet.
But sadly this is not how item creation works on the site at the current moment. Which leads me too:
What Is Wrong With Item Creation
Anyone Can Reach Mastered Item Creation
Now back before I was gone due to…… lets just call it “Mod Requested Hiatus” ranking up and specializing in item creation took a serious toll on your character. Without going into complete details, at max rank to have specialized creation you had to cap two other masteries and could also not specialize in a normal mastery. In fact you couldn’t even get higher than average without capping a mastery. But alas this is no more, and basically now there is no negative to mastering creation. Yes you have to cap healing at average but at the current moment healing is completely shit and no one really uses it. This basically means that you have have all by the very highest level of items and still have everything else mastered or specialize in normal mastery. Now as I mentioned earlier this doesn’t really match with the canon, where you have most normal canons being capable of using kido, swordsmanship, stepping etc… but almost no one has even above average creation. The way it works on the site completely throws any item based plots out the window, since if you can just make all but the absolute pinnacle of items without having to even thread why bother with making threads specifically designed around getting an item.
No Mod Enforcement of Materials
Now I won’t lie, I’ve been guilty of this recently as well. In the guide it states that making items does in fact require materials, but taking recent grading, this is not being enforced at all. Hell I myself have recently have items approved that were tier VII with no materials listed, and even when I have materials listed, they arent ones that have been approved, or have set properties, I basically just come up with a cool name and description and its likely considered no more than fluff by the mods. Having to actually acquire materials to make the higher strength items is in my opinion essential to keep people from just flooding with tier VII items that they essentially just conjured out of thin air.
Plot Point Trading For Items
Now this I’m not even sure is legal, but its been mentioned in Cbox several times now and I think has actually been done. Trading of plot point again makes items to easily obtain. Again back before my Hiatus, you couldn’t trade plot point to an item creator or pay for an item with your own plot points. The creation user not only had to pay for it themselves or make it IC but also had to write it up and get it approved themselves which really made what items there were kinda rare, and important, as it basically meant you had done something for the maker IC that was worth spending their own plot points and time on.
So basically what I’m saying is items are really too strong and lacking in information for how easy they are to obtain. Basically anyone who understands how strong items are right now can kit thier character out with mastered creation and spit out tier VI armor, body mods, weapons, and ammunition based items while still specializing in another mastery.
What we really need is the following: The item guide currently covers item techniques decently well, however it does not cover body modifications, ammunition, or armor well at all (though some of this may change with the forth coming item info). Materials also need a more in depth system, and need to be better enforced so people actually need have them in order to make the more powerful weapons. At least in the case of creation, you should not be able to give a creation user points to pay for a weapon, as this is basically just paying points for access to perks related to a mastery you do not have, all you have to do is know a creation user IC and BAM, you can buy whatever items you want with your own plot points.
And then a choice needs to be made: Either creation needs to be harder to get (basically a return to having to cap a mastery to get higher than average and another to specialize and no specializing in other masteries, or some other thing that mods decide on the makes it similarly difficult to take). Or items themselves need a nerf because basically everyone can (and should because there is no downside) have mastered creation and the numerous perks that come along with it.
