Time to Man Up . . .

After reading all of these points, I'm sure anyone can say that everyone has a side, but more specifically everyone has their own little points. I think that is part of the problem.

Not the points themselves, the inability to come to a decisive conclusion to this topic because everyone has their own little things they would like to see happen on this site, and believe it would be the better for everyone. Maybe not the best solution without editing and hard-work, no. But the problem is that the thing YOU want might be just a tad off from what the next person ones, and it keeps going down until there are too many little things to count. But I suppose that's not the point.

I originated from Chatango, the hail friggin' mary of Honor roleplaying. In that site, you'd be lucky to come across someone who had any sort of rule beyond "Don't metagame, don't godmod, don't bunny" And even with these three implemented rules, there was always a case of someone arguing over who was stronger, and there was always a mutual friend between the two that decided it. If there wasn't, you brought in someone who had a reputation for being a good roleplayer. In Chatango, it's like a roleplaying facebook in a sense. People had strength based on their literary skills, and their detail/length. These people had character's who had built up endless and endless amounts of skills and abilities just from being alive. And where did they start from? It could have been from anywhere. Why? Because they didn't have systems.

But let's discuss systems a tad bit, because you'll find that my end point is simply this, and in my opinion from experience of both types: You simply cannot have both the way you want there to be.

Frankly, people want there to be honor along side with numbers. But they have absolutely nothing to do with each-other. In-fact, in terms of roleplaying they serve the complete opposite purpose. Numbers are a way to calculate the skill through a placed system and stacked up power through rules and guides. Yet true honor was both parties acknowledging one had greater skill. The problem with trying to mix these is a problem we all know about. Someone always wants to be superior, even if it isn't necessarily you. These numbers restrict the people who have true honor, but pay-off by also restricting the bad-doer's so to speak.

Honor systems had free-range to become the best you could be, the stars being the only limit. But with that as your limit, people felt like they could get from point A to point B without true knowledge of how to get there, or what they did to get it.

By now, everyone reading this knows this is an opinion, of course. But with true honesty, I can tell you that sometimes things must be decided FOR people, regardless of what either of them wants.

Which is where dice-rolls and miracles happen.

Now, I know what you're thinking "That would re-work the whole system" Now...not really. You see, for things like illusions and awareness (ect), these things are sometimes dictated by factors your character simply cannot control, or were previously set by something you didn't mean to earlier in your roleplay. These numbers we have now put things in a SPECIFIC path so that these things do not happen. Honor systems have no path what so ever.

But sometimes folks just realizing that not everything can be perfect and controlled by themselves has to be a realization, whether its an honor system or a guide/rule-set.

To be summarized, you can't have rules that give people choices and expect people not to exploit those choices. And not to compare to other threads, but there was an above mention a 'Naruto' board, and if it's the one I think it is then I have seen how it works, and it works very well. Illusion's, reflexes, and things that rely on natural 'numbers' (chance) is based off of simply that...Chance. Instead of making a system where one thing will ALWAYS happen if two people have certain advantages, or a system where people make their own possibilities over and over in a repeating and violent loop against each-other, you make a system where parts of the battle or outcome of the situation isn't decided by them. Even if it isn't a deadly situation. To clear it up, here's an example of how it would work (Just work with me here, stay with it)

Person A casts a tier 7 illusion on person B.

(Honor system: Person B simply says he "Dodges" And person A keeps re-casting the illusion) Naw don't want that

(Current system: Illusion within range? Person B pretty much gets hit regardless if person A is really trying. But hey, person B has a little tool in his belt just for this situation, so he whips it out and breaks the illusion with a hidden ability never before-seen to living eyes besides when he trained it...Once...Many many years ago)

See what I'm getting at? Both can be unrealistic. Through the system and numbers, one might be forever strong and un-touched because the number's dictate that he stays that way unless someone with better numbers come. With the honor system, the person stays untouched forever because he feels that is what his character is..untouchable.

But if the mods decided little bits here and there, and left the rest up to a (to quote what was said earlier by you fine ladies and gents) compressed system, where there either only ranks, or only masteries. Sure, stuff can be powered and gauged on ability. But the way things work now, they are completely unrealistic from any sort of actual fighting sequence. Unless, at some level, the people participating come to an agreement to not follow some or even all of the rules.

SO..in conclusion

If you were to add a system such as a dice-roll, or perhaps even a TRAINING based system where abilities and specific aspects that you train about yourself are recorded instead of having a rank. When two people clash? They have no rank no more, but instead would have the number of threads one person has been practicing their hand to hand versus the others, and how big they are, ect.

Another thing I do agree with that was stated earlier, it seems people are making it more complicated it then it has to be. Hell, if anything, a test-run would be the easiest and safest thing to do. Frankly, I'd just have the little details be more specific in order to grade a situation. The one problem with this, is that it would require near double the effort mods currently put into reading stuff. If someone had a problem with the direction a sword had swung in a brief instant, perhaps the moderator watching over rolls a dice to determine the factor. While this happens, the mod adds numbers to both sides based on the defender's roleplaying skill in the defense, or subtract numbers from the dice-roll based on how bad the attacker's writing skill to get to that attack was.

For example,

Person A swings sword, person B attempts to dodge. "A" words it like it will make contact no matter, with more character experience to back it up. "B" believes it is a terrible build-up to the attack and doesn't make tactical sense, but he is naturally powerful and has a bit more free-range to do crazy feats of power.

So the mod only has one thing to say. "Dice time, baby."

Rolls a d20 for A, with a minimum requirement of 13 for example. The dice lands on 11, and he gets a +2 from a certain number of fight thread experience. However, the moderator agrees that the literary skill used to attack her wasn't sufficient, so he rolls a D4

Lands on 3, he gets -3 from the lack of effort put into the post. At the end of the day, the man does not connect because the score does not favor his attack.

Your problems with this? "What dictates a good post? What if the attack does make sense, but it's still bad writing?" Ect. Mods dictate a good post, end of story. If the attack makes sense, but it's bad writing that the defender has a problem with, get over your grammar nazi tendencies.

At the end of the day, I really don't know much about what people want or need. But I've seen what works. And at some point there has to be an in-between of mod involvement. And the amount we have of it now is only toward the techniques, profiles, and objections we have. All this and never toward the fights until there is a problem. And there has ALWAYS been problems. Just with easier references to look toward in order to come to a conclusion. But if we dictate some of the outcomes off of something neither of them can necessarily dictate for themselves at that given moment, then it would force them to become introspective about what they could have changed in order to prevent it. Someone's attack is higher rolled then you because it had a +3 from previous skill (numbers just an example) and a +1 from being born with a natural efficiency to illusions as stated in his history? Then don't be angry that you didn't win. Be upset that your character wasn't more well versed in how to adapt to the situation, or didn't have the history to back-up the power you were trying to display.

-Shrugs-

The conclusion of my point of view was a suggestion about dice, yes. But the underlying point was still there. Point is, we've already identified that there is a problem. So the fact we've taken notice is always a good thing, but we're never going to come to a conclusion just trying to spit ideas.